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Post by Mr ~Traptz~ on Aug 5, 2008 6:04:11 GMT -5
I'm agnostic. I view it as Atheism for people who know what they're talking about. Atheism and Agnosticism are very different. Agnostic means you don't know what god is, or isn't. Atheism is that there ISN'T any kind of god. I don't get how its atheism for people who know what there talking about... They are very different definitions...
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Post by Mortiss V3 on Aug 5, 2008 11:49:22 GMT -5
To say outright there is no God is just a bit ignorant.
Even Stevie Hawking does not dismiss the existence of God and hes the most intelligent man in the world.
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Mike
Private First Class
Posts: 14
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Post by Mike on Aug 5, 2008 12:35:06 GMT -5
To say outright there is no God is just a bit ignorant. Even Stevie Hawking does not dismiss the existence of God and hes the most intelligent man in the world. Even though the physics community has harshly criticized each of his last theories, but thats another tale. More exactly, it means you don't know IF God is or isn't, and if he IS then you also don't know HOW or WHAT or WHERE. It's basically the religion of admitting you don't know. I agree, but I won't hate someone for saying they don't believe a god exists either.
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Post by Mr ~Traptz~ on Aug 6, 2008 8:19:05 GMT -5
In that sense it can be said that its ignorant TO believe in god. There is just as much proof either way. I honestly cannot see how it could possibly be.
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Post by Mortiss V3 on Aug 6, 2008 14:23:00 GMT -5
It all depends on what your notion of God is I think. If you are looking for a physical being you can actually see and touch then you may decide it doesnt exist. Though if you are looking for a spiritual alternative then you may decide it does exist.
(You get me?)
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Post by Wei Yan on Aug 6, 2008 14:44:53 GMT -5
Mmm... Well let me just say for one.. I'm quite amazed there hasn't be anyone just completely explode over this topic. Everyone else I have ever talked to goes from Debate to like Homocide in about 2 seconds. So awesome! That being said, I was told to take a few posts and put out my own religion. Being how lazy I am and thinking most would shoot me down, here is just a few morals I hold that I typed up a while back. Enjoy! Courage Courage is simple. Have some balls. There are things that every person stands for, so have the courage to stand for it. When a friend gets bullied, take a stand in their defense. When you get bullied, don't be scared to fuckin' fight back. Don't be pushed around. "Weebles who wobble but don't fall down don't ever go anywhere." Fuckin' be you, and don't let anyone ever stop you from doing that. Decide who matters in your lifetime and make sure they last your whole lifetime. Protect the worthy, trample everyone else. Respect Respect is simple. Treat others as you would wish to be treated. Sounds cliche, but if we all did it, we'd see things in all kinds of different lights. No matter how many times they spit in your face, smile politely and apologize after your crush their pretty face. Don't be bullied, but don't be a bully. Show respect to everyone until they lose a reason for you to. Everyone has honor until they prove otherwise. We are all equal, for we are all imperfect. Don't add to the problems of the world with disrespect, be respectful, especially to those who just want to help you. Don't discard a helping hand. - Self-Respect Above all other respects, respect yourself. Always be true to yourself. Never blindly follow anyone else. This does not mean discard everyone else's ideas. Listen and learn, but only change when intelligently proven to be wrong... Do not be influenced. Those with no self-respect are swayed, those with self-respect are taught. Have the respect to teach yourself when possible, for you know how you learn best, and have the respect to let others teach you. Be humble, but do not be over-humble. Know when you have flaws, but only know your flaws long enough to better yourself... Do not dwell on your flaws and do nothing to change them. Also, give yourself credit for the things you accomplish. Never be content, always strive for more, but be honest with your work and reward yourself accordingly. Honor Honor goes along with courage and respect. Having honor means having the courage and respect to do good no matter the punishment. Never lie, no matter how much trouble the truth may bring. Always do right be yourself and your friend first and foremost. Remember, "Protect the worthy, trample everyone else." Have the courage to face those who will make fun of you for proclaiming your honor, then nod and respectfully show them the door or the fist, which ever you deem worthy with your honor. No one else makes you, so no one else is allowed to break you! - Honor & The Opposite Gender When you finally decide upon your honor, take into account these rules when it comes to dealing with women (men). Never, no matter the means, strike a women. You may grapple, but do not hurt her with this grapple. Defend yourself without striking. There are exceptions. If this women enters into a sport where she is aware of her bodily harm and knows men will be competing and still wishes to do battle, then treat her as any other enemy... Just a bump in the road to victory. Always treat her with respect, no matter how many times she spits in your face. Be courteous even to the cruelest succubus. When she yells at you, nod, smile, and speak softly. You look like a child when you raise your voice, as does she, so think light of that, but do not show it. We should be, as people, above exploding. Be calm, not tolerant, but calm. Violence is always a last resort. Violence "Violence is always a last resort." Though that is very very very true, do not be ill prepared. Violence may not be your first choice, but it is always a choice, so arm yourself somehow. Study a martial art, practice archaic warfare (Personal Favorite), boxing, something, just don't be ill prepared. The key to being armed, is knowing when to brandish your arms and when to keep them sheathed. That is true wisdom. When faced with a situation where violence is becoming an option, but you don't wish to take it, turn to a strenuous activity, such as weight lifting. This is productive, lets your energy loose, and keeps you ready for the time when violence is necessary. - Violence & Defense There is a time when violence is your first and best option. Defense of yourself or another physically is something that sooner or later, we'll all have to do. When this comes, do not second guess your reasoning or your opponent, just have the Courage to stand up, the Respect to defend yourself or your friend(s), and the ability to beat your opponent. Doesn't matter how big a boy you are dealing with, or how mean a girl, just matters how much you are willing to lay on the line to win. No victory is complete, but every loss is. Remember always, when faced with an opponent(s) you think you cannot defeat to "Strive For Glory." There is no glory in giving up, but in honorable defeat there is glory, and victory, as well all know, always holds glory. Till your dying breath... That's all I can tell you. If someone is worth fighting, someone is worth fighting till you can't fight anymore. Fight with honor though, do not draw weapon unless one is drawn against you and do not use trickery to win, you only dishonor yourself these ways. Above all things, always remember, "STRIVE FOR GLORY!" Faith This doesn't mean religious faith. This means finding faith in something that means everything to you and holding onto it for dear life. Some find faith in religion (Myself), some find faith in themselves (Me Again), some find faith in their friends (Me Again), some find faith in the goodness in the world (Me Again), and still some find faith in hundreds of different things (Me still). This is not hard, just find something that means something to you, grasp hold of it, and never let go. When someone comes and attacks your faith in anyway, defend it by any means necessary. This is the one time that dishonor does matter, for when someone attacks your faith they attack you personally, and "Protect the worthy, trample everyone else." You are worthy of yourself. Be calm in your defense, so you may keep a level head, but "Fight till your dying breath." Combat No matter how hard you've trained, never underestimate your enemy. No matter what kind of front they put up, treat them like the best, and battle them to the best of your ability. Anyone who is worth entering into combat with, is worth beating. Don't ever go easy on anyone. That only dishonors all the hardwork you've put into training yourself for combat. The rules of Violence still stand, but when you finally enter into combat, treat every enemy equally dangerous, for any could take your life. Life Life is bringing all your morals together. Decide upon a goal that you wish to accomplish in your lifetime, and accomplish it. Never betray your morals though. Always accept every challenge, no matter how easy or difficult. No matter the outcome, you always learn something. Even if the lesson is simple like, that challenge wasn't worth my time. You learned something. You'll never know for sure until you try. Whenever unsure about something, seek out the answer. Have the Courage to ask the right questions to the right people to get the right answers. Once you' ve met a goal, set another one. Never be content, but always reward yourself. Above all things, remember with Life "Strive for Glory," and "Never Betray Yourself or Your Friends." Fearless! That is how we live. Fearless... Trust Trust is very complex, but once you decide upon it, it's rather simple. Trust people until they give you a reason not to. Know who is spewing nothing but lies and gossip and who is actually warning you about something. Use your morals to decide who is goodly and just and who is shrouded in evil. Always trust yourself, never second guess yourself. If you life by your morals, then you shouldn't ever lead yourself into danger. Sooner or later you will find that person, or people if you are lucky, who you will learn to always trust. Once you find that kind of trust, hold tight to it, for those are people who are worthy of you. "Protect the Worthy, Trample Everyone Else." Above all things, trust your morals. They can't lie or backstab you. Friendship You will have hundreds of friends in your lifetime. That being said, there are many different types of friend. There is the type who you will keep forever and they'll never fuck you over. There is the type that are around only when everything is going good, and the moment something goes wrong they leave. There is the type that you see only on weekends, because any other time they are too busy to care what your name even is. There is the type you'll try to help, but they'll continuously fuck up just because they don't want help. There is the type who will fuck everyone else around you, but you. There is the type that will fuck only you, and treat everyone else perfectly. Some might say that not all those types are friends, but we are human and will call many different things friends. The trick to friends is knowing who is worthy of protection and who is worthy of being trampled. Common sense should tell you the answer to that, it just takes Courage to decide which of your friends you need to trample and which ones you need to defend. There is a few, briefly described.
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Post by Sima Yi on Aug 10, 2008 8:55:32 GMT -5
Uh... Why not just join the Knights of the Garter?
I'm am not sure what I really am, I would go with theistic agnostic, but who knows. Creationism I believe, evolution I do not (to many complications). Of course, I am not sure I believe in Abraham religions either (Judaism, Christianity, Islam). Yet I would like to believe in a little bit of Taoism (the balance of good and evil, light and dark), Buddhism (the wheel of time), and one or two other religions. I think I believe in the one god line of thought, but other than that? Who can tell. I need more proof, I have spent way to much thought on this subject already and came to nowhere. This here is a very short summery cause I am tired..
>.>
Blame Lyle.
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Post by Eshmunbaal on Aug 11, 2008 3:03:29 GMT -5
Oi, atheist here. And I'm glad atheism isn't on the poll, since it's not a religion.
While being an atheist I do believe in fate and destiny. I sometimes wonder why I'm being so stupid in believing that, but I just do...
also:
I can only say that, if you are a rational thinking human being, and you believe in creationism... Well, that's pretty sad to hear.
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Post by Wei Yan on Aug 11, 2008 3:31:35 GMT -5
..Creationism, To me, has no real ground to stand on without certain things in Evolution. Yes I find the whole cells in the ocean forming into other things extremely hard to believe due to the fact that a cell is a unintelligent organism that has a set path in life. It follows that path at all costs. It does not stray from that path. So it up and turns into something else one day? I'd need some strong belief for that, but other parts of Evolution make some sense.
Plus, even the highly religious person that I am, knows that to think two people in the valley between the Tigiris and Euphrates river populated the whole world............................. What? Ummm... Must have taken quite a long time and a lot of domestic disputes to make all those kids move so far. Plus.. Inbreds? Ewwww.... Sounds like that little hell hole in Texas. Not cool.
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Post by Eshmunbaal on Aug 11, 2008 3:49:42 GMT -5
I personaly hate creationists saying that evolution can't be true because nothing just changes spontanuously into something different. They try to disprove evolution by disproving macro-evolution, of which even scientists know it never happened...
All macro-evolution is the sum of all micro-evolutions that have happened. Creationists making things up to disprove a scientific theory pisses me off...
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Post by Mikey on Aug 11, 2008 6:09:23 GMT -5
Yes Blaine, inbreds, we're all one big happy family. In Texas
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Post by Mr Wu Sheng on Aug 11, 2008 6:40:46 GMT -5
I bet you're wondering, 'wheres Steve's 2 cents that he'll throw out and probably insult everyone with' - well, it's right here! prepare to be shamed! Heh, just kidding, although i would like to point out that Wei Yan, although i've read your morals very clearly - they do not define a religion or base behind what a religion is, they are just morals, forged behind the human that believes in honouring them. I agreed with every one you put mind you, it seems we are very similar, although I gladly participate in violence with other males, and i've never struck a woman - besides my sister, but she had just dislocated my shoulder, so i did give her a lil push! nothing major xD Anyways, as for religion - i think everything mentioned above is complete trash, that is just my personal opinion and if you want me to throw you all facts and figures to prove my own theories i'm afraid you'll all get wasted, you see i was at college not to long ago - and people, i.e a very nice christian girl and a cool muslim male were my friends, and they both waged wars with each other to see who could convert me first. In the end i asked them both to tell me why they believed in their religions - to show me proof of their existance and when they did, i basically trashed it until they just stood there not knowing how to reply..or back up their crazy theories. My own honest opinion. I believe in fate, destiny and i believe in another life once we die, but i wouldn't call it heaven or hell. Also to just clarify a few points, Agnostic isn't a religion of NOT KNOWING. Since technically speaking, no religion can be 100% based on the truth since most of a religion is based around BLIND faith. Agnostic means simply that someone believes in SOMETHING, like a higher power or a force that IS with us, but we are unsure what that force is. We are open to discussion and debate on the world and why certain things is, but we refuse to believe in a set god or spirit - in turn we could believe that every religion is in a way linked and joint, we can believe anything in a way - just so long as its not an actual religion. Agnostics don't know, but then i've had even Priests and Vicors stomped by my questions on how we can put blind faith in things we do not see, know or even hear. The way i always win is by dinosaurs, simply because a clever Christian can use 1 paragraph from the bible to throw them in, but some - even a priest said they're here to test peoples faith, mix that with the fact that christianity wasnt found until just before the roman era then we also know that before jesus and all his verdicts there were countless other religions and faiths. I think religion wasn't just invented to keep a set society together and bound them by laws, but i also think it was a reason to in a way, do the very things religion in todays society forbids us to do..KILL. In the past we used religion as a means of vengeance, to destroy those who were not believers, in the biggest time frame our religious sect groups were the most violent, harsh and most wickid people in the entire land, simply torturing those to death by fire and thinking a creator of all mankind would be sat somewhere smiling over it. meh its pathetic. In the end - my views are different, if a human can be considered an Onion *simply because of how many layers in essence we have per personality* then i think the world, universe, ect ect is too connected to the same thing, if theres no heaven then there needs to be a logical reason why we see ghosts or things that defy our laws of gravity, such as floatation, flying - mist without the properties of it to form. I believe we live in dimensional worlds similar to this one, where when you die you simply move on to the next stage, life is no test - i think life is designed only to test us, to increase our intellect and understanding of what its like to be both poor and rich. But thats kinda...another story alltogether lol. But yeah, i'm agnostic who blieves deeply in evolution, since its already been fucking proved >.> unless its just a wild coincidence we share 90 or so percent of a Guirallas DNA structure and out body parts, mainly the (penis) region is TOOO similar to that of theirs, we also have hands, feet, a spinal colum just like a monkeys and everything else. Yeah we dont have huge fur or whatever but we are very similar in our bone/dna structure to them. i have no doubt evolution created the cave-men, and then their own intelligence and inventions lead to what we are now. asimple shadow of our former self, weaker - more civilised and more pathetic then we've ever been in our entire history. You know when a race is pathetic, its when they gather around highly developed technology such as computers and discuss everything about the world..but without any power whatsoever to do anything about it yeah..so much for religion..doesn't it say 'thou shall not kill'...do people realise everything around us is technically a living organism, so every tree we kills - every time we drive a car or do something to destroy the world that in thir eyes..was GIVEN TO US IN 7 DAYS. Then you're defying his ruling already by destroying it, its also said that christians are all backwards anyway, since to be in gods heart you dont need to go to a church, or pay money - you just need faith...so yet again..greed and ambition has twisted the origional concept of our so called gods. and if you're strongly religious, i advise you to comment, we wont wage a war - just a friendly debate i've debated with priests, vicors and every other religious figure i've encountered..i'm not rude in my statements, i'm simply intrigued in how someone can put blind faith in something they'll never know exists until its to late But yeah..me..i'm Agnostic..with lots of other weird ideals and beliefs ^_^
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Post by Liu Shan on Aug 11, 2008 6:54:11 GMT -5
Why should it insult people? We're all to our own opinions, some people think what others believe in to be nonsence, while others only have their faith and that warm feeling of worshiping is what they have left in life.. - I say faith, not religion as the word 'religion' has links to an organised religion which I'm against.
But what I don't like is when people take on the stance of 'I believe this, so you will too'.. I like to educate and it stops there, it's the individual not how many people you can 'convert'. Though I do respect others faith, I just like to make people aware of what I believe in if they're interested. So it opens their mind to what Daoism is and so they don't make links to the organised religions that Christianity, Catholicism..etc.. are becoming.
'thou shall not kill' - that's from the old testament, placed by Jehovah... Christianity/Catholicism.
But what do you think of the others? Daoism.. Buddhism? They're rather based on philosophies, especially Daoism, than an organised 'religion'.
For example, one chapter in the Doadejing by Laozi says something like do what you wish but think of the consequences on others first, because you are not the most important thing on this planet as we are all equal.
It's a set of verses where the individual can take their own idea from it, it doesn't say 'do this, do that, you have to do this..etc.'.. it's more of 'blah blah blah' without a true answer set by Laozi, but more set on the person reading it. Also, saying you believe this and I believe that, so we shouldn't spend our time fighting over which is right or wrong.
Though it is a shame that Daoism is being turned into a 'religion'.
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Post by Mr Wu Sheng on Aug 11, 2008 7:06:31 GMT -5
I don't know much about those forms of faith, although i will look into them. Since they go more by morals as such - which i go by on a daily basis. But then since it's a faith, and an open ended textbook - i wouldn't look at it as a core to my existance, but more as a simple guide to help you in life. is that how Daoism is supposed to work, or would i be wanted to believe in every word and passage with my dear life - because we humans were created differently, and the liklihood i'll agree with anyones views 100% is very slim
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Post by Sima Yi on Aug 11, 2008 8:42:18 GMT -5
WHERE ARE THE FISH PEOPLE!!!! >.> Sorry, joke between me and Dan. But really, if you are going on the basis that evolution has to be possible, then you need to take into account that god may just be a fucking humorist and decided to confuse man when he got to the modern age. Thus he had everything with genes similar to one another. The only way evolution can be proven true is if you watch it, truly watch it. Which would mean, you would have to sit there and watch an animal or plant of a million years. You can't work on assumptions because of genology. Other wise, who can say that we aren't just some alien ant farm? Eh? Some xeno creatures decided to come down and mess around and creature new races and such? Evolutions claim a comet hit the earth and killed off the dinosaurs, but everything else survived? Uh... I think that first thing to go would have been plant life, and then things that ate the plants, and then the meat eaters. Why would it kill off just the dinosaurs? Right? But what do I know, I don't really spend my time reading up on evolution. I just know that for an organism to do anything would seem contradictory to what it is, which is just a program that can only follow a limited guide line. Other wise we would be mega beings by now I would have to imagine. Of course, there are problems with Creationism to, which is why I am on the edge with everything, and atheism would so work for me, because it would mean I hold responsablity to nothing and no one, except myself. And if I died, it wouldn't matter. And all that. But I can't believe that bacteria, riding on the back of a comet, that set down in water, spawned everything. Just cause it is not smart enough. But of course, one god who created everything... who knows. But if he did, they it would not be like the Christians or Muslims would want you to believe, that he is control of everything. If he or they, did exist, then they came to Earth, fucked around, did what they wanted, and left. They built a rational world that can survive on it's own. Of course, who can say though. Cause believing is seeing. And who would believe in something they can't see. Right? So then how can you believe in evolution when you have never seen it in progress?
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